Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN providers and any providers in general...

[xD 0x41 <secn3t@xxxxxxxxx>]

This is ONCE you are actually in front, of the judge...remember, it may take
some breaking of civil liberty, for this to happen... or i maybe wrong.
cheers
xd


On 5 October 2011 15:10, Laurelai <laurelai@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>  On 10/4/2011 6:50 PM, adam wrote:
>
> "That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And
> frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE
> officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you."
>
>  I'm curious as to what you think would cause contempt to be a criminal
> offense, especially in that example.
>
>  Secondly, without the appropriate warrant - they couldn't legally take
> anything. If they disregarded that truth and did so anyway, they'd open
> themselves up to a pretty big lawsuit for violating that individual's civil
> rights as well as due process. Not to mention, anything found would likely
> end up being inadmissible because it was obtained illegally.
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Laurelai <laurelai@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>   On 10/4/2011 6:35 PM, adam wrote:
>>
>> "(Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge -
>> happens so
>> rarely that it's basically a hypothetical)."
>>
>>  You do realize that (at least in the US) - contempt is *not* a criminal
>> offense, don't you?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:15:02 EDT, Jeffrey Walton said:
>>> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  > > As I mentioned before it is hard to expect that a VPN provider will
>>> > > risk his company for your $11.52/month, and maybe they would try it
>>> > > for some lesser case, but what Lulsec did was grant, so I'm not
>>> > > surprised that they bent.
>>> >
>>> > "Alleged"
>>>
>>>  Yes. So?  In most jurisdictions, "alledged" and "probable cause" is
>>> sufficient
>>> to get a court to sign off on a subpoena and/or warrants.
>>>
>>> "Dear Judge:  On Aug 23, a hacker using the handle "JustFellOutOfTree"
>>> did
>>> violate Section N, Clause X.Y of the criminal code by hacking into
>>> BigStore.com.  The connection was traced back to the provider VPNs-R-Us.
>>>  We
>>> would like a court order requesting VPNs-R-Us to provide any and all
>>> information they may have regarding this user".
>>>
>>> That will usually do it (after bulked up to about 3 pages with legalese
>>> and
>>> dotting the t's and crossing the i's).
>>>
>>> The next morning, the manager at VPNs-R-Us gets to his office, and finds
>>> two guys with guns and a signed piece of paper.  At which point one of
>>> two
>>> things will happen:
>>>
>>> 1) the guy rolls and gives up all the info.
>>> 2) the guy calls his lawyer and makes sure that he gives up all the
>>> required info,
>>> and not one byte more.
>>>
>>> (Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge -
>>> happens so
>>> rarely that it's basically a hypothetical).
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>>   That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And
>> frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE
>> officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>
> http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00754.htm
>
> And they can hold you indefinitely until you comply, or use your lack of
> compliance as reasonable suspicion to get that warrant, oh and lets not
> forget that they are declaring kids cyber terrorists and then the patriot
> act takes effect in cases of suspicion of terrorism, when that happens you
> don't have any rights anymore. Realistically we should stop calling them
> rights since they aren't really rights, they are privileges that can be
> revoked at government convenience.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/