Re: [Full-disclosure] [Fwd: Re: windows future]

["Michal" <michal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Computers are far too easy to use (and far too easy to use badly) so people use 
them very badly. There was a time when only people intelligent enough to use 
computers, could. This was one of the best things...though that being said 
there are many LOL's to be had because stupid people get on the internet. 

Example; http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/24/4chan_pwns_christians/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Thor (Hammer of 
God)
Sent: 28 August 2009 14:39
To: full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [Fwd: Re: windows future]

> On Thursday 27 August 2009 13:33:37 Thor (Hammer of God) wrote:
> > But that's the same on my Mac and Ubuntu distro too.  The first user
> is the
> > admin.  Granted, the default behavior on Mac/nix requires the admin
> > password
> 
> That's a big difference. Entering a password counts as more of a
> deterrence.
> Having seen my co-workers on their home machines, it's pretty clear
> that it's
> too easy to click OK without thinking. Entering a password, especially
> when
> the prompt doesn't occur as often as the UAC prompt is a more
> significant
> action. Personally, I prefer arrangements where the administrator uses
> a
> separate password. Not only do you need a password, but it's a
> different one.
> It's seldom used. The end user probably has to go look it up. I'm not a
> big
> fan of sudo.

Right - which was my original point.  Only if you are running as admin do you 
get the UAC "confirm" dialog (by default).  I always run as a regular user, and 
must enter an admistrator username and password when I need to escalate.  Even 
if you are running as admin, you still get the dialog, but you can certainly 
change that if you want to require an admin username and password.  The point 
still stands:  if you have ignorant users who won't read anything, but you 
insist on letting them run as admin (which is just crazy in the first place) 
then change the behavior of the UAC.  They, of course, should be running as 
normal user anyway.  Again, it's all in what you want.  You can remove the UAC 
completely if you want to, but there's no feasible excuse to hold on to the 
"they running as admins, but won't read anything, and won't ever read anything, 
but we're going to let them continue to be admins even though they're stupid, 
but will still contend that it's the OS's fault" mindset.
   

If the entire argument is around the default escalation behavior being "enter a 
password" (which they already know) vs clicking OK because you assume entering 
the password is more of a deterrent, then OK, but the premise of "the people I 
work with are too stupid to know the difference" kind of takes away from that.  
And one should also note that in a domain environment, the default behavior is 
indeed username and password.  Just thought I'd throw that in as well.

t

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/