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Re: [Full-disclosure] Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks Against Iran
- To: full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks Against Iran
- From: Laurelai <laurelai@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 13:36:07 -0400
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On 6/8/12 1:03 PM, Thor (Hammer of God) wrote:
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>></span>
finding solutions to countries using cyberwar and using
innocent peoples machines to carry it out,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">>> invading peoples privacy and
generally doing terrible stuff in the name of god and country.<br>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
solution? And who exactly is going to “find”
it? The
entire history of mankind is based on the “terrible stuff we
do in the name of god and country.” We, of course, being
humans. All we need is one of the two and we’ve got all
the
justification we need to go off and kill someone else for
having a different god or different country. Note I said
“justification” and not
“motivation.” God and country are
just excuses – means to an end. There’s always
another
agenda. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Man
does things for two reasons: to get laid, or to get
paid.
Everything else is just a nice fuzzy wrap to make us feel
better about ourselves. “Finding some other
solution” is
naïve and a waste of time. We, and everyone else, will do
whatever we want to do, and do whatever it takes to get away
with it. It’s as simple as that. It’s easy
and convenient
for you to bitch about the injustices from behind a keyboard
when men and woman are out there DYING for their country and
the integrity of what they believe in, irrespective of the
basis of the decisions their commanding bodies have for
sending them out there. It’s called “real
life.” Grow up
and go get that bleeding heart sewn up at some free clinic,
paid for by the government that has to do the hard work in
order to preserve your right to whine about it.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#B70028"><img
id="Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:part1.02030600.00030107@oneechan.org"
alt="Description: Description: Description:
Description: Description: Description: Description:
Description: Description: TimSig" height="30"
width="42"></span></b><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#943634">Timothy
“Thor” Mullen<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.hammerofgod.com">www.hammerofgod.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.amazon.com/Thors-Microsoft-Security-Bible-Collection/dp/1597495727";>Thor’s
Microsoft Security Bible</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Laurelai<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 08, 2012 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Full-disclosure] Obama Order Sped
Up Wave of Cyberattacks Against Iran<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/8/12 11:38 AM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:valdis.kletnieks@xxxxxx";>
valdis.kletnieks@xxxxxx</a> wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:48:33 -0400, Ian Hayes
said:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:40 PM, andrew.wallace <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:andrew.wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";><andrew.wallace@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:valdis.kletnieks@xxxxxx";><valdis.kletnieks@xxxxxx></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>One could equally well read that as "We're fed up and about
to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>pound North Korea even further back into the Stone
Age".<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>With Stuxnet, it was lucky nobody was seriously
injured.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>You cannot condone such weapons Valdis, or your hat will start
to turn grey,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>black.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Stuxnet may not have killed anyone, but several Iranian
nuclear<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>scientists were assassinated in conjunction with Stuxnet's
release.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Please don't feed the troll - the only way he can post to
full-disclosure is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>if somebody quotes him in.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>The worst part is that Andrew's reading comprehension is as good
as<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>always - I wasn't commenting on Stuxnet, but the move of naval
forces<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>to the Pacific. China isn't the only reason we might want a
naval task<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>force over there.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>And I never said I condoned it, merely pointed out alternate
interpretations.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>The funny thing is that Andrew was going on for a *long* time that
there<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>is no such thing as cyber-warfare - when in fact it was going on
while he<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>was denying it.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Charter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html";>http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think the real question we should all
think on is what are we going to do about this kind of thing?<br>
<br>
Because the way I see it, the infosec industry is part of this
problem until it finds a way to be a part of the solution, if
you all even desire this.<br>
<br>
If you do then lets talk about finding solutions to countries
using cyberwar and using innocent peoples machines to carry it
out, invading peoples privacy and generally doing terrible
stuff in the name of god and country.<br>
<br>
If you don't then just do us all a favor and stop calling
yourself an infosec expert, stop pretending to be one of the
good guys and just call yourself a mercenary and realize you
are in the same class of people who assassinated civilian
scientists for political reasons. I hope all that money helps
you sleep at night. <o:p></o:p></p>
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Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html";>http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html</a>
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
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</blockquote>
Excuse me but im a veteran who served 10 years in the Army and I
damn well earned my right to complain about how broken the system
is, myself and the soldiers around me sacrificed so that we could
all have a free country and that yes I could "whine" about it. Its
called the US Constitution, we took an oath to uphold and defend it
and everything it stands for. I didnt sign up to "get laid or paid"
I did it to serve a cause greater than myself, not that you would
know anything about that. Oh and that "Free clinic paid for by the
government" is called the VA Hospital and I already earned the care
I can receive there. Want to complain about it now? Feel free. You
have that right. Its called freedom of speech. You are welcome.<br>
<br>
So while I'm saying here that the civil liberties I swore to uphold
and defend are eroding away and that evil is triumphing over the US,
you are telling me this is business as usual. Forgive me but I do
not feel ok with allowing that to continue.<br>
<br>
Just because something evil is the established way of things or is
becoming the established way of things doesn't mean we have to or
should accept it. Perhaps *you* should stop being so cold and jaded
about the evils of the world and put some you know *effort* into
fixing them instead of trying to shout down anyone who tries or
talks about trying to make the world better.<br>
<br>
You are honestly implying that there is absolutely nothing that can
ever be done ever and we should all just lie down and take it, can
you understand why I might take issue with that perspective? You are
saying in essence "There is no more room to improve so we should
never again try." <br>
<br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<span class="st">All that is necessary <em>for evil to triumph</em>
is for good people to do nothing</span>.<br>
<br>
<br>
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