Re: [Full-disclosure] virus in email RTF message MS OE almost disabled

[Ryan Sears <rdsears@xxxxxxx>]

Yeah I've got to go with Thor on this one. 

You endangered your entire infrastructure by exposing internal defects in your 
(or your staffs) knowledge. That's a big no-no. Every company presumably has 
people in it who aren't the 'sharpest tools in the shed' so to speak, but in 
one email you've divulged more then enough information to mount a 
social-engineering attack to gain access to not only your home computer, but 
assuming you're using the same passwords for everything, *everything you run*. 

Don't ask questions about this kind of stuff on FULL-DISCLOSURE. This is a 
security mailing list, and you asking if you got a virus is equivalent to 
installing that retardo purple dancing monkey and being suprised it's 
backdoored your computer. You're going to be endlessly flamed for it, because 
you're wasting people's time to make you look like a fool.

The fact that you're looking for newly installed executables is a joke, really. 
Most modern initial exploitation vectors have been built to run fully in 
memory, never hitting the disk. Also thanks to DLL migration you can instantly 
exploit then migrate to something like explorer.exe. You should've been looking 
for network connections as opposed to an entry in your uninstall menu saying 
'l33t M$0FFICE expl0itz lul!'.

While Thor's response might have been a bit sharp-tonged, I share his 
frustrations and agree with him whole-heartedly. Too many times our most 
important information is stored in the hands of people who either don't think 
about security, or blatantly ignore it. This is not only disturbing, but sad as 
well. What's the point in protecting my information on my private network if 
it's going to be poached when it enters YOUR hands? Hackers look for the path 
of least resistance, and operate on the old adage 'work smart, not hard'.

You sir, are a classic example of why certifications and titles are a bad idea, 
and are currently failing our industry. How can you call yourself a 'genius' if 
you aren't actually one? How can a CISSP *not* know about basic 
virus/exploitation behavior? You're the equivalent to the people who go to a 
garage sale, buy a purple heart then tell everyone to call him 'sarge'. I'd say 
spend 10 min googling for some file format analyzers (which aren't the greatest 
but MIGHT catch blatant stuff like that assuming there's something there), then 
spend another 10 finding a professional to help you re-order your 
infrastructure, and look at your company through the eyes of a hacker, not just 
someone who read a few paragraphs on security then decided to call them-self a 
'security professional'. 

Sorry if I seem impatient, but this is the *exact* behavior that all of our 
infrastructures should be not only curving,  but cauterizing with fire. If you 
don't understand about file-format vectors of attack, LEARN ABOUT THEM. Don't 
expect to get spoon-fed answers, but we live in a time where *any* question can 
be answered within a minute of googling, and that's if your google-fu ISN'T 
strong.

Google-fu. That's how you become half-decent at anything now-a-days. There are 
vast communities centered around everything from web attacks, ring-0 level 
exploits, wireless hacking, embedded devices, and everything else in-between. 
We all start off as n00bs, but the difference is the people who actually want 
to learn do, because they enjoy learning about it, and go seek the knowledge 
relevant to them. If you wanted any real help, you should've enclosed the file 
in question, not just said there was some mystery file that caused some cpu 
load. Welcome to Windows. That happens quite often. 

Ryan Sears

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Mikhail A. Utin" <mutin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 4:52:07 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] virus in email RTF message MS OE almost disabled

Keep it on the list.  No need for private emails if you need assistance - give 
everyone a chance!

My response was far more useful than your post - "I got pwned by an Office 
virus by opening an attachment in OE - What could it be??"  Jeeze dude.  And I 
didn't give any "adice" about "Noton."  I said to get someone professional, 
which you *clearly* need to do. 

You should look up these guys:  
http://www.rubos.com/pisa.html

Apparently they are Information System Security Professionals, and they are in 
the same town as you.  One even has a CISSP, so you KNOW that he knows what he 
is doing.  Funny thing is that he has the exact same name as you do.  What are 
the chances of that?  If these guys formed the company to sell services to 
businesses and individuals to comply with legal security and privacy 
requirements, then they should be able to figure out how to find an Office 
virus on XP, right?

You can even join them as "Security professionals and experienced Information 
Sestems professionals are welcome."  I'm not sure what a "Sestems professional" 
is, but it must be very important work.

Waste of time indeed.  Apple Stores are hiring "geniuses" for the holidays - 
even they know how to use XP and could help. 

t





From: Mikhail A. Utin [mailto:mutin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:26 PM
To: Thor (Hammer of God)
Subject: RE: virus in email RTF message MS OE almost disabled

Your email is useless. It is on my home PC. If you have better adice than using 
Noton SW, then please use your mind to get something minigful.
If you can name the virus or where to find its instance, it would be a help. 
Otherwise do not waste you and my time.

From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:17 PM
To: Mikhail A. Utin; full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: virus in email RTF message MS OE almost disabled

You know, every time I start to get a bit of hope for what looks like an upward 
trend of businesses and organizations taking security seriously, I see crap 
like this.  Your organization is a Medicare prescription contractor with a 
national network of 61,022 contracted pharmacies, and not only are you running 
unpatched versions of old OS's and opening email attachments because they "look 
OK," but you have to post to Full Disclosure asking help for trivial virus 
detection and removal advice?   Now that everyone on FD knows that you are 
vulnerable and that you open email attachments, you've probably just caused the 
organization to be pwned 9 ways from Sunday. 

To answer your question, call a professional and have them do it.  And in the 
future, don't send out emails like this from your organization email announcing 
the state of your security.  That's what Hotmail is for.  

t

From: full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mikhail A. Utin
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 7:18 AM
To: full-disclosure@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Full-disclosure] virus in email RTF message MS OE almost disabled

Hello,
Opening looking OK email message in my MS OE I've very likely got new kind of 
virus, which exploits MS Office flaw recently announced. Immediately after, my 
OE started consuming huge memory when I switched between folders or messages. 
I've not seen any process in Task Manager taking up to 1 GB memory (physical is 
512M). I did not find any newly installed executables either. When I shut down 
OE, the computer works fine.
Any thoughts?
Thank you

Mikhail
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email communication and any attachments may 
contain confidential 
and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named 
above. If you are 
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this 
communication 
in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of it or its 
contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, 
please reply to the 
sender immediately or by telephone at (617) 426-0600 and destroy all copies of 
this communication 
and any attachments. For further information regarding Commonwealth Care 
Alliance's privacy policy, 
please visit our Internet web site at http://www.commonwealthcare.org.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email communication and any attachments may 
contain confidential 
and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named 
above. If you are 
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this 
communication 
in error and that any review, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or 
copying of it or its 
contents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, 
please reply to the 
sender immediately or by telephone at (617) 426-0600 and destroy all copies of 
this communication 
and any attachments. For further information regarding Commonwealth Care 
Alliance's privacy policy, 
please visit our Internet web site at http://www.commonwealthcare.org.

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/