Re: [Full-Disclosure] OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household

["henry j. mason" <hmason@dbsinet.com>]

	i agree with your assessment, basically, but:

        you say these 'uber-hackers' don't believe in full-
        disclosure, but you say they use it to learn? or,
        without full-disclosure (or any disclosure at all)
        they would learn anyway? care to posit some theories
        as to how?

        these people have tons of free time, yet a lot going
        on socially? i find those two mutually exclusive,
        unless you don't have a job, and job-less twenty-
        somethings are hardly the most motivated of people.

        i do grant you that there is a very small quiet minority
        of very skilled hackers. but they aren't t13r anything
        because they just do it because they have to, not for
        l33t recognition.

        henry

Joshua Levitsky wrote:

> I would add a tier before Tier I that would be hackers that do not 
> believe in full disclosure, do not share exploits outside their close 
> knit circle of friends, do not support "the man". A lot of these guys 
> are better than "The best of the best", but nobody knows because they 
> don't make themselves public. Maybe you could call it "T13r Z3r0" :) 
> Seriously... there are people out there that have tons of free time to 
> learn, and possibly monitor lists like this, and laugh at the silly 
> people that disclose vulnerabilities and share information. They aren't 
> necessarily out doing damage. They just don't play with strangers 
> because they choose not to. Some of these people are damn cool. Some are 
> just anti-social, but that really isn't the norm so far as I can tell. 
> Of the people I've ever met they seem to have personalities, and usually 
> have more going on than I do socially. If you met them you wouldn't 
> think "hacker" or even know they are in to computers.
>
> I dunno... just my observations here in New York City. Perhaps it's 
> different elsewhere.
>
> -Josh
>
>
> On Oct 13, 2003, at 1:02 AM, Joel R. Helgeson wrote:
>
> > Tier I
> > - The best of the best
> > - Ability to find new vulnerabilities
> > - Ability to write exploit code and tools
> >
> > Tier II
> > - IT savvy
> > - Ability to program or script
> > - Understand wht the vulnerability is and how it works
> > - Intelligent enough to use the exploit code and tools with precision
> >
> > Tier III
> > - "Script Kiddies"
> > - Inexpert
> > - Ability to download exploit code and tools
> > - Very little understanding of the actual vulnerability (launching Linux
> > attacks against MS boxes)
> > - Randomly fire off scripts until something works
>
>
> --
> Joshua Levitsky, CISSP, MCSE
> System Engineer
> AOL Time Warner
> [5957 F27C 9C71 E9A7 274A  0447 C9B9 75A4 9B41 D4D1]
>
> _______________________________________________
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